@Data20112018 said: Lucas had loads to say in the prequels. He had the imagination.

Man, I could not disagree more. Let's recap a little, shall we? I'll limit it to Phantom to keep things relatively short.

• The fall of the Old Republic was begun with a trade dispute on an unimportant planet. A TRADE dispute.
• The greatest army the Neimoidians could produce were hordes of robots that couldn't shoot straight, were easily flustered, and who were easily destroyed.
• Amidala's leadership consisted of empty threats, hiding, and dressing in ridiculous costumes.
• Anakin was a small child whose greatest victory came from randomly pressing buttons in the cockpit of his fighter. A fighter he was capable of piloting despite the fact that he'd only ever driven a two-dimensional racing Vehicle.

Ugh, there's so much more but I don't feel like typing it all. No, there was nothing at all creative about Lucas's storytelling. It was simplistic, relied on stupid characters doing stupid things, and valued spectacle over narrative.

@AlienFanatic said:

@Data20112018 said: Lucas had loads to say in the prequels. He had the imagination.

Man, I could not disagree more. Let's recap a little, shall we? I'll limit it to Phantom to keep things relatively short.

The fall of the Old Republic was begun with a trade dispute on an unimportant planet. A TRADE dispute. The greatestv attend

I think that is a good example of clever misdirection. Naboo was an incident which while seemingly unimpactful at the time, later becomes a signpost for the beginning of the fall of the Republic. The events played out here lead to the election of Palpatine for a start. The trade dispute is just a background thing the bigger picture.

@AlienFanatic said:

@Data20112018 said: Lucas had loads to say in the prequels. He had the imagination.

Man, I could not disagree more. Let's recap a little, shall we? I'll limit it to Phantom to keep things relatively short.

The fall of the Old Republic was begun with a trade dispute on an unimportant planet. A TRADE dispute. The greatestv attend

I think that is a good example of clever misdirection. Naboo was an incident which while seemingly unimpactful at the time, later becomes a signpost for the beginning of the fall of the Republic. The events played out here lead to the election of Palpatine, for a start. The trade dispute is just a background thing to the bigger picture of what is really happening.

@Data20112018 said: I think that is a good example of clever misdirection. Naboo was an incident which while seemingly unimpactful at the time, later becomes a signpost for the beginning of the fall of the Republic. The events played out here lead to the election of Palpatine for a start. The trade dispute is just a background thing the bigger picture.

Except that's not how revolts begin. There is an ideology. A popular groundswell or even just a large breakaway element. Literally all Palpatine had was an army of awful robots, some Neimoidians, and ... I can't think of anything else. There did not appear to be much dissent in the Senate. Unlike Nazi Germany, which is clearly Lucas's inspiration, Palpatine had not amassed a large paramilitary forces nor had he successfully undermined the government with propaganda. The war on Naboo was a complete loss for Palpatine's pseudo army. That it led to a wider conflict in the other films wasn't because it was a logical next step but because Lucas wrote it to be so.

He's an awful writer. How you can defend such a rudimentary and ridiculous screenplay baffles me.

@AlienFanatic said:

@Data20112018 said: I think that is a good example of clever misdirection. Naboo was an incident which while seemingly unimpactful at the time, later becomes a signpost for the beginning of the fall of the Republic. The events played out here lead to the election of Palpatine for a start. The trade dispute is just a background thing the bigger picture.

Except that's not how revolts begin. There is an ideology. A popular groundswell or even just a large breakaway element. Literally all Palpatine had was an army of awful robots, some Neimoidians, and ... I can't think of anything else. There did not appear to be much dissent in the Senate. Unlike Nazi Germany, which is clearly Lucas's inspiration, Palpatine had not amassed a large paramilitary forces nor had he successfully undermined the government with propaganda. The war on Naboo was a complete loss for Palpatine's pseudo army. That it led to a wider conflict in the other films wasn't because it was a logical next step but because Lucas wrote it to be so.

He's an awful writer. How you can defend such a rudimentary and ridiculous screenplay baffles me.

Well, the Naboo incident gets Palpatine installed in that position. That is basically the point here. In the intervening years up to Episode II, Palpatine can then start pulling various strings as we later see, to bring about a major war which leads to the Empire.

"Now this is pod racing!" I curse that kid's very existence every time I hear that line.

Darth Maul and the Chosen One prophecy.

@AlienFanatic said:

• Anakin was a small child whose greatest victory came from randomly pressing buttons in the cockpit of his fighter. A fighter he was capable of piloting despite the fact that he'd only ever driven a two-dimensional racing Vehicle.

Luke managed to destroy the Death Star with one hell of a fluke shot!... I mean did you watch that scene. The torpedo somehow changes direction. These films have flaws but lets all try to realise that these films all have flaws, not just the prequels. And Yes, Episode IV is a much better, more grounded film than Phantom. But Phantom is a good film on its own terms too.

Luke managed to destroy the Death Star with one hell of a fluke shot!... I mean did you watch that scene. The torpedo somehow changes direction. These films have flaws but lets all try to realise that these films all have flaws, not just the prequels. And Yes, Episode IV is a much better, more grounded film than Phantom. But Phantom is a good film on its own terms too.

Nuh-UH.

So which one was the better force user again?

http://i.imgur.com/wgNTyae.gif

Just reminded of this again via the parody "best thing" thread... For me it always was:-

1. Failure to match up with OT backstory
   

It's interesting that this seems to be a minority viewpoint. I don't like the other points either but I think I could have lived with them (maybe Jar Jar's pushing this!) had the story actually matched up.

I find it an interesting parallel to Rogue One. Clearly a much, much better effort but it's equally poor continuity shenanigans just makes me view it in exactly the same way.

the script?

Turning the Jedi Council into, and I quote, "a bunch of robed sissies!". This really applies to the trilogy as a whole.