Discuss Joker
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What did you think of the Joker 2019 movie?
posted by Isaiah90STAFFMOD on October 19, 2019 at 12:51 PM
I was skeptical at first. I was debating whether or not i should watch it. I used to think the Joker didn't need an origin story because i felt he was more mysterious that way. When i thought about it, he had one in the Killing Joke so he’s not that mysterious. That's why i watched Joker, even if i wished another villain would have his/her own movie. I didn’t think this movie’s Joker would be on the same level as Heath Ledger’s Joker.
I was mind-blown by this movie and my expectations were blown away. This movie tackled some deep issues like society's hypocrisy, lies about equality, child abuse, mental illness, etc. I was shocked at some scenes which crossed some boundaries. What made this movie great was how it didn't just tell the story of how a crook fell in a vat of chemicals and became the Joker. It made me think about alot. It had loads of emotion and some ambiguity. When the Joker laughs after a tragedy, its hard to tell if he's laughing or crying.
The scenes about mental illness spoke some harsh truths about how mentally ill people are treated today. Hence, why Arthur Fleck wrote in his notebook “the worst part about mental illness is people expecting you to behave as if you don’t have one.” Arthur Fleck tried hard to get help for his mental illness, but it seemed like society showed no support. They don’t want to acknowledge mental illness exists much less understand it. It’s as if people just want the mentally ill to be locked up in a mental institution and be done with it.
It also had some harsh truths about equality. Society cares more about status than about equality. The poor are expendable.
People criticized it for its violence, but i think they were disturbed. Because there was no Batman, we had no one to look to as a savior. The movie forced us to look at ourselves and our relationship to people like the Joker. It raises disturbing questions like how much of a role we play in creating someone like the Joker and how accurate are his perceptions? Throughout the film, it was hard to tell if the Joker was seeing things correctly or just being delusional.
People criticized the film for this Joker not fully embracing the evil and chaos in him like say Heath Ledger’s Joker. I don’t think this criticism is valid. People forget this is a different Joker before he became THE Joker. That’s why its an origin story. I was about to criticize this Joker for his lack of clever punchlines and criminal schemes, but realized that’s the point. The Joker was a failed comedian trying to get by in the world. He didn’t have any intent to turn to a life of crime. We see a very vulnerable side of the Joker that’s not there in most Batman films.
I loved the original soundtrack. It reminded me alot of the theme of the Dark Knight live action franchise. I thought the song “smile” by Jimmy Durante was iconic and perfect for the film.
It had some flaws. I disliked how the laughing and references to Taxi driver were a bit overdone. I also thought the Joker’s love interest didn’t need to be there. It was not how i imagined it would be. I thought the comic’s version of the Joker’s wife made more of an impact than Joker’s girlfriend. I thought the film could’ve been much darker had it taken a different approach with his love interest based on the comics. I disliked how some songs like those of Frank Sinatra didn’t fit well with the theme of the film. I didn’t think the song “smile” was placed in its proper scene. It could’ve been better.
Perhaps the movie’s biggest flaw was how it focused too much on the Joker’s mental illness rather than his emotional turmoil. I was expecting to see a blend of emotions and mental illness. Lots of people have already included hallucinations or the “reality vs. fantasy” motif in films on mental illness. It’s become too cliche. The film could’ve been more powerful if it stuck to creating drama while balancing out the Joker’s mental illness.
Nonetheless, i loved it and highly recommend it to any fan of the Joker.
Reply by EnlightenMe
on November 1, 2019 at 3:29 AM
Thx a lot for the dissection. My takeaways:
Reply by A-Dubya
on November 1, 2019 at 12:11 PM
I thought it was good but not great. Some of the stuff towards the end seemed very unrealistic for me, like the talk show parts.
I liked it as a whole, but I prefer Heath Ledger and even Jack as the Joker more, probably due to them being in a film with Batman.
Reply by Isaiah90
on November 1, 2019 at 12:28 PM
Yea, the dances gave me chills. The first dance was to cleanse his guilt and cope with the reality of what he’s done. He tries to channel all of his negative emotions into something positive and forget what happened. This part gave me goosebumps, especially the soundtrack that plays in the background. When the Joker dances on the stairway, it had some of the most beautiful cinematography of the film. The radiating sunlight symbolizes Arthur’s twisted form of redemption via. killing those who wronged him. He slowly embraces who he becomes and wallows in his insanity after being free of his meds. It’s like he gains a new found freedom and breaks free from what people expect him to be - a law abiding citizen who tries to make everyone smile. I loved how the camera films this from so many different angles in slow motion and at a normal pace. It looks graceful even though the Joker’s movements are random and chaotic. It just shows how disorganized his mind is.
The part when he kills his mom was shocking. I was completely shocked at the dialogue and scene where Arthur kills his mother in the hospital. He says “i used to think my life was a tragedy. Now? It’s a comedy” and suffocates her with a pillow. I loved how the camera shifts to behind him so we can see how intense of a struggle it was. I was morally conflicted on how to feel about this. On one hand, i was cheering him on for what she did to him. On the other, it was disturbing because it was his own mother and he could’ve legally had her punished. I didn’t expect Arthur to kill his own mother because it seemed like she was such a huge support in his life. Probably the biggest one. The fact he killed her was disturbing.
I agree with you. This movie is about honesty and deceit. The biggest example of that was the last scene on the Murray show. Arthur holds a gun in his hand and reads his notes in his apartment while watching the Murray show. You can tell he’s planning on killing himself on the show. He asks to be introduced as “Joker” as a response to Murray calling him that earlier. Just when i thought he was going to kill himself, he admits to killing the three college bullies. I gasped in shock just like the people in the show. I could understand admitting it in a private conversation with Murray, but in public? That’s beyond crazy. I was surprised when the cameraman cuts the show off air. Arthur reveals how he really feels about society as he talks about how the rich take advantage of the poor and disenfranchised. He talks about how people like Murray brainwash the audience into what he thinks is funny and reveals humor is subjective. In this conversation, we learn Arthur suppressed his enjoyment of killing the three bullies on the train until now. He tried so hard to fit in with everyone else and what everyone else thought was funny. He finally says “who am i kidding? I enjoy killing. This is what i find funny even if everyone else doesn’t.” What he says is so true. It was also shocking to see him angrily confront Murray on making fun of him which Murray makes light of. When Arthur shoots him after telling a joke, that gave me chills.
Reply by EnlightenMe
on November 1, 2019 at 6:20 PM
Thx for the vivid re-telling...
Being a cliche here, as I just noticed that the ratings between the critics and the other audience is diverged. On RT, critics 69, audience 89. On Metacritic, it's 59, 92. It's as if, like in the film, the elite barely gave it a half-crooked smile, while the plebs celebrated in the streets.
@A-Dubya This is the best Joker! What is holding you back? :) Nah... we've been lucky to have different takes. Rather than various storytellers / business executives playing it safe by giving us pretty much the same chars.
Reply by VHS-VANDAL
on November 2, 2019 at 2:34 AM
NEXT WILL BE INTO THE JOKER-VERSE...
Reply by Isaiah90
on November 2, 2019 at 12:52 PM
I disliked how the laughing and references to Taxi driver were a bit overdone. I also thought the Joker’s love interest didn’t need to be there. It was not how i imagined it would be. I thought the comic’s version of the Joker’s wife made more of an impact than Joker’s girlfriend. I thought the film could’ve been much darker had it taken a different approach with his love interest based on the comics. I disliked how some songs like those of Frank Sinatra didn’t fit well with the theme of the film. I didn’t think the song “smile” was placed in its proper scene. It could’ve been better.
Perhaps the movie’s biggest flaw was how it focused too much on the Joker’s mental illness rather than his emotional turmoil. I was expecting to see a blend of emotions and mental illness. Lots of people have already included hallucinations or the “reality vs. fantasy” motif in films on mental illness. It’s become too cliche. The film could’ve been more powerful if it stuck to creating drama while balancing out the Joker’s mental illness.
I agree.
Reply by Isaiah90
on November 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM
I don't bother with the critics and audiences. I just watch the movie if i like the plot and judge my opinion on it then. Critics criticize it for all the wrong reasons. Their opinions are based on popularity, the actors, director, etc. I could care less about that. I'm into the art and plot.