Do you consider Tyler to be a hero and all because some say he represent freedom for every man since he rejects society, he hates consumerism, he feels males are being too feminized and not masculine, he hates political correctness, his "i don't give a fuck attitude", he hates being a slave to work and all plus has high intelligence. Or was he a total psycho who only existed in a faustrated worker's mind?
And do you consider the moral of this movie to be coming of age where the narrator is like a kid who loved his material possessions, when he met Tyler he became a rebellious teen and when he realized he created a monster near the end, he finally outgrow him and learned to grow up to become a mature individual? was that the moral and point of the film? if not, what is the moral?
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Reply by Jacinto Cupboard
on August 21, 2020 at 9:48 PM
There's truth in this. It does require the qualification however that what we today interpret as negative qualities or questionable morality might not have been the case when those stories were written. The Greeks and Israelites for example put great value on guile, and this sort of trickery doesn't resonate well with most of Western tradition. The Nobel laureate Peter Medawar famously forbade his children to read the Old Testament on account of its shocking values. I'm not sure we need to entertain the folk tales of barbarians here either.
So the anti hero might not have been new, but it was certainly a reversal or alteration of a very long Western literary tradition.
As for your comments on Peaky Blinders, while all fiction is a kind of deliberate lying; messing around with the truth of historical events is artistically and intellectually bankrupt. It's also lazy, because it takes ready made real characters audiences are more or less familiar with and then puts them into novel contexts. By analogy, an artist might paint a moustache on the Mona Lisa and claim this as new art. But not only is the creative addition minimal, it also insults what came before.
Reply by Jacinto Cupboard
on August 22, 2020 at 9:46 AM
My point overall is to stress the continuities in the Western tradition. Whether the anti hero of the late 20th century is an extension or a revisiting of particular themes, is neither here nor there. I was stressing that despite those changes certain particulars remained constant. Particulars not met in Fight Club.
The exclusion of cultural references outside of the Western tradition isn't 'racism'. It is merely stating the obvious: that these traditions are separate and distinct. It is also a question of ownership. It's not my place to say what Norse or Native American folks tales mean, or to deconstruct them. They are not a part of my culture, nor the culture depicted in Fight Club.
My reference to 'barbarian' wasn't meant to be diminutive. It was meant to point to the obvious fact that some of the references you made were to non literary cultures. I reject completely the idea that a reference to a culture that doesn't even have writing has some bearing on literary analysis in the 21st Century. If an Amazon tribe has an oral legend about a heroic ancestor who ate the babies of the tribe's enemies it is neither my place to comment on that, nor do I need to consider it for even a second in the current discourse.