Unfortunately this is not a film crew site, but a movie fan site

This is a movie and TV database, and also a site used by movie fans. If you for some reason thought this was a site for organizing crew credits in the exact way unions want it, that is never going to happen. I'm also not sure why you thought it was a good idea to start up this discussion again, when you got a good reply here.

Finally, everyone has a say here, which is fine, but I notice you have not made one contribution since you joined TMDb and yet you are asking us to change the database to suit your personal needs?

@Omar Roessler said:

Again this is low priority for them because this is a movie fan site, not a film crew site. But don't take my word for it, just read all the conversations / comments in all the threads.

Sadly, I'm under the same impression! :-(

Contributing crew members (= the majority of people who work on film/tv other than the few popular stars), especially to tv shows, is already such a hard and complicated thing to do on TMDb! Mostly because of the seperation of season crew members and episode crew members - a separation that is simply stupid and makes it even harder to contribute. But it adds some frustration if you're unable to find (important) crew jobs, or if you argue with mods about what one label means or not, or in which category a label belongs or not, or asking to add those who are still missing?

I gave up the arguing (because it doesn't lead to anything) and only add the jobs that I can find at the moment. My list of missing jobs was so long, I gave up on writing them down and quit caring about those missing jobs. And, at the end of the day, the information isn't even displayed for older seasons, or - with the new layout - it's displayed in such a mess nobody really wants to take a look at.

I kind of understand that I have to be patient and Travis has a lot of other things to do and to work on. But for a movie data base that claims to want to be the best it's quite frankly embarrassing to give this part of the website such a low priority. I don't get it at all, but that's how it is and it's not my decision to make.

@Omar Roessler: If you are THE Omar Roessler - can you tell me that Cosima and Delphine will be okay after season 5? Or, no, wait, don't tell me, I have to see it for myself. Did you work on the show for the whole season?

Best wishes,

janar

"Love [...] is the most incredible gift to give and to receive as a human being." - Ellen Page

I'm sure you guys have also complained to IMDb about their way of not using the union sanctioned departments, breaking out production design, set decoration and a bunch of other jobs as single categories without a department. Or, wait, you only care about TMDb since here you actually can make some things change. I can buy the criticism from Janar, though, since Janar actually do contribute here.

My list of missing jobs was so long, I gave up on writing them down and quit caring about those missing jobs.

That is a shame. Why not keep the list for yourself and then add the most common jobs over time? That is how I did when I arrived here.

I think it's been quite clear that new jobs are added every 4-6 months so I'm just surprised that you would give up so easily.

@lineker said:

I'm sure you guys have also complained to IMDb about their way of not using the union sanctioned departments, breaking out production design, set decoration and a bunch of other jobs as single categories without a department. Or, wait, you only care about TMDb since here you actually can make some things change. I can buy the criticism from Janar, though, since Janar actually do contribute here.

I don't want to write anything to this paragraph. In my opinion, one of the advantages of TMDb over IMDb is to comment on anything and discuss it, no matter who you are and how much you contribute. People like @Omar Roessler, who actually work in the movie business, might be of help to improve TMDb on the long run. However, it's obvious that - for some reason - you think differently about all that, and for me it's very sad that you have to express this in the way and form you did in the paragraph above. :-(

My list of missing jobs was so long, I gave up on writing them down and quit caring about those missing jobs.

That is a shame. Why not keep the list for yourself and then add the most common jobs over time? That is how I did when I arrived here.

Yes, it is a shame! Why not? Because I couldn't keep up with organizing my files, and I don't want to spend even more time doing this.

See, for the 4 seasons of "Orphan Black" and for a few other shows, I made excel files with every crew member and every single episode. I coloured the members that I added in red or green, depending on whether the person pages were up to date or not, or in orange, if their job titles are still missing. All that was so hard to achieve over days and weeks, and it takes so much time (that I don't really have), that I had to make certain compromises regarding my contributions in general. And one of those is to say to myself: When I add more than 50 or 60 crew members to TMDb for a single movie from the original credits, I won't write down the 20 or 30 jobs that are still missing in the database for myself anymore. It's just too exhausting and time consuming to do it, and it's pretty obvious that adding crew members isn't a very high priority for TMDb in general.

I think it's been quite clear that new jobs are added every 4-6 months so I'm just surprised that you would give up so easily.

I didn't give up easily. I simply have to adjust the time that I want to spend for contributions and for other things I want to do in my free time. See, in this case: I don't work in the movie business, I can't tell you which job belongs to which department - simply, I'm not an expert regarding this matter. I have to trust other people to make improvements and suggestions, but my personal experience from the last 3 months tells me that there are many things that could be improved in this regard here on TMDb, while there's a certain lack of interest and overall concept to do it (because it doesn't seem to be a high priority, or it's really hard work, or for whatever reason). That's why I gave up, not easily, yet doing more important things. :-)

Best wishes,

janar

"Love [...] is the most incredible gift to give and to receive as a human being." - Ellen Page

People like @Omar Roessler, who actually work in the movie business, might be of help to improve TMDb on the long run.

Sure, we could rename TMDb the CUD (Crew Union Database) and let Omar be in charge of content. I'm sure the intentions were good, but coming here and telling us this is the way the world works is simply rude and borderline troll behavior. The user even requested to have their account deleted... On the other hand, if the user had come here and said "I have an idea, why don't you try this?", then that would have been the polite way to go about things. But not all users know how to behave themselves and they want to stir things up. Sorry that you got involved in my response to that user.

My frustration also comes from countless of disappointments regarding IMDb data and the fact that the user just mentioned seems to honestly think there are no problems over there... since the union approved all the departments or whatever (except all the top jobs that don't have a department - different structure for sure, yeah, but still).

When I add more than 50 or 60 crew members to TMDb for a single movie from the original credits, I won't write down the 20 or 30 jobs that are still missing in the database for myself anymore. It's just too exhausting and time consuming to do it, and it's pretty obvious that adding crew members isn't a very high priority for TMDb in general.

It's true that a majority of users and moderators would probably focus more on adding missing data in general, rather than adding complete crew data for one project. It's a different approach and sure to be frustrating because of the missing jobs. So when you explain it like that I understand more where you are coming from. (And imagine trying your method in 2012! That would have been impossible.)

See, in this case: I don't work in the movie business, I can't tell you which job belongs to which department - simply, I'm not an expert regarding this matter.

I think too much fuss is made about departments overall. To me it makes no difference at all that Music and Sound are put together, or Costume and Make-Up. It's the same as with the genre decisions. Each movie site choose their own path about things. But if someone wants to go ahead and suggest a complete new job departments structure, go ahead, but maybe create a new topic first. I'll stay out of the discussion here now (unless it's about actual jobs to be added). Over and out.

• Story Supervisor (Writing)
• Story Manager (Writing)
• Story Artist (Writing / Art ????)
• Story Consultant (Writing)
• Story Coordinator (Writing)
• Digital Storyboarding (Writing / Art????)
• Additional Storyboarding (Writing / Art????)
• Art Manager (Art)
• Art Coordinator (Art)
• Animation Coordinator (Visual Effects)

Art Manager (Art) and Art Coordinator (Art)

Are those different jobs than Art Department Manager and Art Department Coordinator that we already have?

I am not sure, I was thinking the same indeed.. I saw them in Finding Nemo!

"Plans, directs, and coordinates all activities in the art department. Works with marketing department to design TV commercials, catalogs, brochures, etc. Responsible for preparing reports concerning productivity, changes in workflow, and other factors that effect expenditures. May require bachelor's degree and at least 7 years of experience in the field. Familiar with a variety of the field's concepts, practices, and procedures. Relies on experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of complicated tasks. Leads and directs the work of others. Typically reports to a senior manager. "

Looks about the same... Should I add them as such?

Looks about the same... Should I add them as such?

I think I would have done that. A comparison would be "re-recording mixer" where we always add them as "sound re-recording mixer".

Action Director Category: Director

Frequently used in Hong Kong kung fu movies. Not the same as stunt coordinator or coreographer because I would assume he actually sits in the director's chair during fight scenes. Ppl have been listing this role as simply director which clearly isnt right.

Yeah, I mentioned that one earlier! I saw it a few times for anime too! And I think I also saw it in the Chinese anime Wonderful Days.

Maybe we could add "Delegated Producer". It would really make adding credits for Dutch creations a heck of a lot easier.

The most important production-related jobs in NL are (with the English equivalents between brackets, if I'm correct... it gets really confusing iwth all the same terms in both languages hahaa!)

• Producent (Producer)
• Gedelegeerd producent (Delegated producer, lead producer, or main producer in English, most of the time there's only one, some special cases may be two. This is like, the god of the production. The highest ranking person in the production chain!)
• Co-producent (Co-producer, and sometimes used Executive producer in English)
• Uitvoerend producent (Line producer)
• Line producer (I don't really know.. Supervising producer? They basically take care of the daily stuff on set. And they do HR (hire, fire) and assurances. They are just below the uitvoerend producent, but in the end have no financial responsibility)
• Productiemanager, productieleider (Production manager)
• Producers not to be confused with Producent mentioned earlier (those who do production tasks on the floor. although they probably just say "hi, ik ben van productie", instead of "hi, ik ben een producer")

What's even more confusing is that sometimes the credits are used interchargeably in english/dutch during the end credits/on poster LOL XD

For some TV shows we also have the very important jobs of Redacteur and Eindredacteur... I really don't know what to do with those...

Redacteur: responsible for creating the content and just prepare everything for a shows. He/she writes texts, makes interviews, prepares guests for interviews and just takes care of the execution of a show. They also suggest new subjects and writes texts for a tv host / voice over if present. They escort candidates/guests/panel before and after a show and usually also pick them.

Eindredacteur: in the end, he/she is the one responsible for the content of the show he/she works for at that moment. So the quality, the amount of viewers, everything related to the production. They coordinate/lead the team of "redacteurs", and is responsible for their work, such as the texts, "draaiboeken" (like, a strategy plan, a sheet, or a whole book with info on who's gonna be where and how long and what needs to be done, like a whole script just for creating the episode! :P) call sheets, schedules and such. They probably judge it by quality/usefuless and whatever.

Delegated producer, lead producer, or main producer in English, most of the time there's only one, some special cases may be two. This is like, the god of the production. The highest ranking person in the production chain!

This is interesting since it's different from the US structure for TV. For a TV-show someone may start out as associate producer, then get bumped to co-producer. After that it's producer, then co-executive producer and finally executive producer. The executive producers often decide everything, including final decisions on editing.

However, it's quite similar to the movie structure (see here for example). Usually "delegate producer" is translated to producer in the press releases I have seen (it's a credit used in France too: producteur délégué).

A wish for Travis: For movie entries we need to get the job Teleplay bumped to the same status as Writer, Screenplay and others. Right now it's hidden. See for example this entry.

I would also like to see "Dialogue Editor" moved from Editing to Sound.

This is interesting since it's different from the US structure for TV. For a TV-show someone may start out as associate producer, then get bumped to co-producer. After that it's producer, then co-executive producer and finally executive producer. The executive producers often decide everything, including final decisions on editing.

Not having one system across the world makes it hard for us, haha!

I always thought Exec producers were just the people who made the film possible via financial support.. At least, that was what I've been reading in my Film Studies book back in college

@alltimemarr said:

This is interesting since it's different from the US structure for TV. For a TV-show someone may start out as associate producer, then get bumped to co-producer. After that it's producer, then co-executive producer and finally executive producer. The executive producers often decide everything, including final decisions on editing.

Not having one system across the world makes it hard for us, haha!

I always thought Exec producers were just the people who made the film possible via financial support.. At least, that was what I've been reading in my Film Studies book back in college

That's how it should be in theory, but on Game of Thrones - to use the most popular example - the showrunners (both listed as executive producers) are really running the show.