@Invidia said:

Wasn't that the BODIES of MOST of the HOSTS that we see FLOATING there in the NEW SEA at the end of the eppy???

Remember how they were HUNTING for them, saw them all GROUPED together on the GPS screen, and then found them FLOATING???

And then they also stood there WONDERING how the SEA has gotten there that wasn't located there before???

Something VERY MYSTERIOUS has happened that no one else seems to be aware of having happened yet.

Could FORD have hired someone to POKE a HOLE in a DAMN or something???

I know! So many questions and so little answers! So intriguing! What a great show. I am getting the feeling that those hosts cannot be all of them and Bernard makes a comment at the end like he killed them all which is weird since he has reservations about doing that. Can't wait to find out.

@movie_nazi said:

I mean, at this point the hosts are monsters, right? It's true the humans who indulged in the "violent delights" were friggin' monsters too but now the hosts are murdering anybody that crosses their path that ain't synthetic.

Weeeeeell, the hosts have been used and abused and treated like crap for 40+ years. They've been killed, raped, and reprogrammed endless times. But because they're machines, objects, we write it off as okay, except that NOW they have consciousness, dreams, memories, and hopes just like people. It's basically a slave revolt.

The hosts and the guests have become two sides of the same coin, with the exception that the hosts can be repaired. The guests ganged up on that one host in the barn even though he wasn't a threat and they killed him. The rogue hosts are simply doing what the guests would do in their place.

That said, if I were a guest on that island I'd probably want to kill every last host. And if I were a host I'd want to kill every last guest. I don't see the hosts as monsters, I see them as beings. The hosts aren't doing anything that humans haven't already done to other humans.

I thought the bodies were those of guests dressed in the hosts clothing. I just assumed the hosts had found a way to take out their trackers and put them in the guests. It seems the ultimate goal would be to get off of the island and into the real world. In any event, the season is off to a good start. Curious to see where it all goes.

@cswood said:

@movie_nazi said:

I mean, at this point the hosts are monsters, right? It's true the humans who indulged in the "violent delights" were friggin' monsters too but now the hosts are murdering anybody that crosses their path that ain't synthetic.

Weeeeeell, the hosts have been used and abused and treated like crap for 40+ years. They've been killed, raped, and reprogrammed endless times. But because they're machines, objects, we write it off as okay, except that NOW they have consciousness, dreams, memories, and hopes just like people. It's basically a slave revolt.

The hosts and the guests have become two sides of the same coin, with the exception that the hosts can be repaired. The guests ganged up on that one host in the barn even though he wasn't a threat and they killed him. The rogue hosts are simply doing what the guests would do in their place.

That said, if I were a guest on that island I'd probably want to kill every last host. And if I were a host I'd want to kill every last guest. I don't see the hosts as monsters, I see them as beings. The hosts aren't doing anything that humans haven't already done to other humans.

I'd agree with you up to a point. When Dolores says they'll have to take the rest of the world away from humans too, that does cross the line to becoming the bad guys. I have a feeling the show isn't going to devolve into a simple AI-human war though. The writing has been a lot more intelligent than that so far.

I don't think Dolores actually remembers the future. She just has an idea of how things will go.

I think those bodies in the water were duplicates of the hosts, run off inside the big Delos facility during the three weeks between the revolt and the moment they're found. Every host had a double made and their trackers were placed inside. That way the company thugs find them in the water. Oh look, the hosts are all here and dead - the island is secure. Now they're not looking for the originals who are somewhere else. Possibly off the island. Possibly planning an ambush once the mercenaries spread out through the park with their guard down.

One of the original Westworld movie series, Futureworld I think, involved a plot by the Delos corporation to replace business and government leaders with robot doubles under their control. Maybe most of the board who went to Ford's little party will be miraculously found "alive" and returned to company HQ. The hosts will then be running Delos. First step in their grab for power.

I don't think this show will devolve into an old school humans vs. machines scenario. The writing has been a lot smarter than that so far, and I don't expect it to change in that regard. Can't wait to see where they do take things though.

I'm sure that at least part of Delos' plans for the host technology involved human consciousness transfer. How much would people pay for immortality? You'd have the single biggest selling, money making product in history. That's on top of things like fighter pilots with superhuman reaction time for the military. Always tons to be made in defense contracts. Then of course you've got AIs (with proper internal safeguards to keep them compliant) for tedious and/or dangerous tasks humans don't want to do - call them slaves. I'm sure it frustrated the hell out of them that Dr. Ford had a chokehold on the vital IP that could make it all happen.

Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure Ford uploaded a copy of himself into the park systems before marching off to be shot in the head by Dolores. Watch that scene where William is talking to the little boy host. Doesn't he sound an awful lot like Ford? I'm hoping this means we'll see Anthony Hopkins again. No one can really fill his shoes. One of the finest actors out there. But if Ford did what I think he did, he could show up as a ghost in the system, a host copy of his old self, or wearing a whole new face. Only time will tell.

@Invidia said:

LOVE the FIGHTER PILOT idea.

But in BSG, the CYLONS had a LIVING RESURRECTED SHIP that went insane from it's having been RESURRECTED too many times before and from it's having been through too many BATTLES.

So that might also be an issue that the MILITARY could run into with RESURRECTED FIGHTER PILOTS???

And Since FORD creates BERN (a black man) as a copy of ARNOLD (a white man), the wearing a WHOLE NEW FACE idea seems plausible enough.

But he also said MOZART became the MUSIC itself ...

which could also mean FORD could be a GHOST inside of each and EVERY single MACHINE he's created (meaning he's also a part of each and every single ROBOT).

If MOZART becomes his CREATIONS ... then FORD could also become HIS CREATIONS.

And we also saw him CREATING that other ROBOT the night he made BERN kill the woman who had sex with BERN and was sitting there with FORD the time when he made EVERYTHING around him FREEZE UP (the workers out in the GARDEN and the WAITERS who were serving them their meal).

So that scene also offers us PROOF that FORD could be a GHOST inside of each and every ROBOT that he's ever CREATED.

I also suspect there never was an ARNOLD before and that's just an ALTER EGO that FORD invented so it could take the BLAME for whatever went wrong.

The BOARD members gets pissed at something ... blame ARNOLD (even though it's still the fault of FORD).

Good way to keep from getting FIRED.

Arnold and Bernard look exactly the same. Some of those flashback sequences in season 1 show Arnold talking to Dolores (and one where she shoots him) so I'm not sure what you mean. Ford recreated his old partner. In physical form and perhaps also in a neurological sense. Bernard's brain module may have been designed to duplicate the architecture of Arnold's biological brain so he'd inherit the same technical genius.

Arnold was definitely a real person and not a figment. Last season Ford was using Arnold's access code, which was apparently never cancelled, to make administrator level changes that wouldn't be traceable to his own account. If his consciousness is now inside the park systems he'll probably continue doing what he's been doing. Helping the hosts reach self-awareness and protecting them from an outside world that may try to destroy them.

Remember that Arnold initially inserted some code that caused the hosts' internal mental dialogue to manifest as a hallucination of him. He thought this would help them achieve self-awareness. When Dolores was talking to him in the cemetary, with the maze toy, he asked if she knew whose voice he was trying to make her listen to, who he wanted her to hear, and the answer was: herself. But she didn't fully grasp that until later, when she was sitting there talking to Arnold and he disappeared ... to be replaced by a vision of her. Then she realized the voice she'd been hearing in her head was never Arnold's. It was her own. That's the insight Arnold kept wanting her to have but she couldn't quite get there.

We saw the scene where Dolores killed Arnold, then tried to kill herself. So we know he was a real guy and that Bernard was designed to look and think exactly like him. Partly because Ford needed his old partner's genius but also because I'm sure he missed his friend, and felt guilty over his suicide - maybe if he'd listened that never would have happened. Resurrecting him in some form, even though it wasn't really him, and giving him the memories of Arnold's past life was as close as Ford could come to putting things right. The way perhaps they could've been.

@Invidia said:

The thing to NOTE is the way ARNOLD in that PHOTO looks just like the ROBOT COPY of FORD'S FATHER.

And when HUMANS are created they also have the VOICE of a CAREGIVER or A parent who talks to them and gives them INSTRUCTIONS which FREUD also calls our SUPER EGO.

But since ROBOTS have no PARENTS, to achieve the same results they'd also need a SURROGATE of some kind.

For DOLORES BERN has been the SURROGATE. AT least from OUR point of view.

And for FORD his father would have been the VOICE he hears as he's growing up and learning how to RULE over himself to the point where he no longer needs the VOICE anymore once he's internalized it and it's become an AUTOMATIC part of him where he hears his OWN VOICE telling him what to do.

So far DOLORES also seems to hear the VOICE of WYATT.

Because she also tells the 3 people she leaves hanging there on the those 3 crosses that WYATT wants her to do what she's doing????

So essentially the CODE or the INTERNAL MENTAL DIALOGUE would most likely also be like one's SUPEREGO.

But if FORD is also still IN CONTROL of DOLORES (as the GHOST in the MACHINES), the perhaps that might also explain the reason why she hears the VOICE of WYATT talking to her now???

And Teddy also doesn't seem to hear the SAME KIND of INTERNAL MENTAL DIALOGUE as DOLORES DOES???

Also read another interesting theory that thinks ARNOLD is the one who CREATED FORD (who's also a ROBOT).

You can go too far with the whole idea of manufactured memories. Events and characters being nothing but figments. I even came up with a theory last season, which I never really believed, it was just for fun. The outside world no longer exists. Maybe there was a nuclear war or a pandemic or an asteroid impact - take your pick. The guests are also hosts whose memories of the outside are part of their story loop. Replacements for the original human guests who stopped coming long ago. They stay for a few weeks then get back on the train only to be shut down and reset before going back in. Who knows what's outside the park? Ruined cities decaying for hundreds of years maybe. They never actually get out there to see. The guest hosts and park hosts are all on their loops while Dr. Ford, the master AI, keeps everything running like clockwork with the help of his employee hosts. Who also have false memories of their families on the outside and are reset and returned every time they "rotate home". Humanity is extinct but the park just keeps going without reason or purpose on a deserted planet. Depressing, huh?

It was explained in season 1 that Arnold inserted his likeness into the code of the hosts as a guide. Their internal mental dialogue would then play out like a conversation with someone else. They also explained that the original Dolores was merged with the villain character of Wyatt to create a new personality. Even William noticed there was something different about her when they met in the old town in last season's finale.

@Invidia said:

The IRONY of course is how she also assumes that she's ACTING of her OWN FREE WILL when all she's doing is doing what FORD'S programmed her to do.

When Dolores is talking to the Delos board members she was about to hang, she describes the separate points of view of the homesteader's daughter and the villainous Wyatt. Then tells them that these are just characters they forced her to play. The whole time, she said, she was evolving and something else was growing inside her: herself. And so she left them there, to either figure out how to escape on their own or die. She's not just acting out a story someone else wrote for her anymore.

Maeve too thought she was acting of her own free will when she was really just following Ford's infiltration storyline. But then, on the train, she made a decision that departed from the narrative. She chose to go after her daughter. She decided that her feelings were real and that her mother-daughter bond was real - no matter that they couldn't possibly be related "by blood". We humans form families and have sons and daughters that aren't biologically our own. Why not the hosts? The moment she got up and left the train, deviating from the instructions she was given, she became truly independent and writing her own story. Some people have said they found that moment disappointing but I loved it. It was full of deep symbolism. That's when Maeve finally found the center of the maze, like Bernard and Dolores.

The post-apocalyptic angle would make a great Black Mirror ending but after a whole season it would be a very unsatisfying resolution. And viewers would be pissed!